Invicta evokes a polarizing response from “watch geeks.” Some appreciate the value-priced quality while others sniff that Invicta is merely a “TV brand” due to its ubiquitous presence on ShopNBC. Still others delight in the (fictional) misfortunes of its CEO from disgruntled purchasers. More recently, Invicta has been blazing a trail in the oversized watch market. (For reference, the typical Rolex “Submariner” style dive watch case is about 40 millimeters. Invicta is now regularly producing watches with cases over 50 millimeters in size and 20 millimeters thick.)
Video capture from 4/11/2010
Me – I’ve grown tired of the typical home shopping TV doublespeak. “One time only” prices that magically get lower the next month; “limited editions” that are offered again and again with slight deviations in design; a “Reserve” line that was supposed to be, uh, reserved, for extra-premium timepieces that now cost less than the non-Reserve line. I could go on. And on.
The Invicta shows on ShopNBC do make for an entertaining evening at home. Whether it’s the host’s thinly-veiled, juvenile jokes about “brown eye” dials and “slapping a beaver” on your wrist, or the feigned astonishment and gasps that precede “that price must be a mistake,” you can’t beat live home-shopping TV.
So I might be biased as I write about this new lawsuit against Invicta. I take it personally. Invicta’s CEO, Eyal Lalo, seems to be a pretty ethical guy. Back when the host of ShopNBC’s watch shows was known as “OompaLupah” on a watch forum that I frequented, Eyal personally responded to customer questions and even sent a bunch of us a fancy Invicta watch box. (I’ll sell mine to anyone interested if the price is right…)
Eyal also constantly remarks about how he is the named inventor on multiple patents covering the designs of Invicta watches. He recognizes the importance of patents, and he should. The Invicta Lupah design is widely copied by other manufacturers.
So, that’s why reading this Complaint is so tough. Despite my love/hate relationship with Invicta and its marketing channels, I tend to support the brand overall.
A few months ago they started selling a new watch design with several 
interchangeable straps and bracelets. The whole thing was packaged in a “submarine case.” If my memory is correct, they also use a little animation that looked like a CAD drawing of the case opening up to reveal the watch and straps. They also offer the case by itself, and I believe that several other Invicta models are shipped out in this style case now.
Imagine my surprise, then, when I saw:
Plasticase, Inc. v. Invicta Watch Company of America
(Complaint HERE, Exhibits HERE)
Damn. The case was filed April 6, 2010 in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida.
The allegations are straightforward. Eyal calls company to see about having some plastic storage cases customized for use with watches. Company sends sample cases to Eyal. Eyal never responds with an order or “no thanks.” Company sees its patented case design on national TV. Company calls Eyal to see if he intends to order any cases based on the samples. Eyal says he is “passing on the opportunity.” Oops.
If true, the allegations paint a very disappointing picture of this watch company and its charismatic CEO. Plasticase is basically saying that Eyal ordered some sample cases then, rather than order from the company that designed the cases, he shipped them off to China to have them made cheaper.
As you already know from reading this blog, fairly recent changes have occurred in the infringement analysis for design patents. In a “knockoff” case like this, the patentee-friendly Egyptian Goddess standard might not even matter. If the case doesn’t settle soon, Plasticase should get everything it needs for a slam dunk via discovery requests. Invoices from China and Eyal’s own conduct in ordering the samples is 80% of this case. Add in plaintiff’s design patents and proper marking of the cases, and this should be over.
Of course, Invicta hasn’t answered yet, and the Complaint is obviously slanted to one side. Invicta is innocent until proven guilty. This is definitely one case that I’ll be following with interest.
I’ll even make this deal – if the case goes in Plasticase’s favor on summary judgment or via a jury verdict, via multiple choice, I’ll let my readers choose the fate of one of my Invicta watches, and I’ll post a video of the destruction.
April 20, 2010 at 9:59 am
You are actually too kind to Invicta and its CEO, who constantly walks the edge – and frequently falls over the line – in his ZEAL to move product.
For years, he referred to watches as Swiss when they were actually “Swiss Parts” meaning assembled in Asia with some parts made in Switzerland and other slights of hand.
But to the core of this case, Invicta is a knockoff brand. It gained initial market traction with the 8926 – a deadringer Rolex Submariner “homage.” It has also feasted off “homages” to other famous designs.
While I agree the filing is one-sided and Invicta is innocent until the charges are proven, at the moment I have very little reason to doubt the accusations based on Mr. Lalo’s track record.
Where you see a crafty businessman, I see a modern-day PT Barnum.
April 21, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Invicta has been involved with numerous cases similar to this.
A lot of history here though
1:02-cv-10133-BSJ Cartier Intl B.V., et al v. Invicta Watch, et al
Barbara S. Jones, presiding
Date filed: 12/20/2002
Date terminated: 03/08/2004
Date of last filing: 03/11/2004
1:98-cv-04395-SAS-DFE Citizen Watch Co. v. Invicta Watch Co., et al
Shira A. Scheindlin, presiding
Douglas F. Eaton, referral
Date filed: 06/23/1998
Date terminated: 10/13/1998
Date of last filing: 10/13/1998
The Swatch lawsuit was settled out of court and dismissed. Settlement not disclosed.
1:07-cv-00839-DC The Swatch Group Management Services AG et al v. Invicta Watch Company of America, Inc. et al
Denny Chin, presiding
Date filed: 02/02/2007
Date terminated: 07/14/2008
Date of last filing: 07/14/2008
Settled out of court and dismissed on 1/15/2010.
1:09-cv-02479-PAC Invicta S.P.A. v. Invicta Watch Company of America, Inc.
Paul A. Crotty, presiding
Date filed: 03/18/2009
Date terminated: 01/15/2010
Date of last filing: 01/15/2010
One can speculate how this will go though. Invicta responds, a protective order is signed and the case goes away with no details divulged. In reality, Invicta pays a bunch.
I am very curious why all of this surprises people though. if you look at some of the watches Invicta and others make, they are “homage” watches to the original such as Rolex, Omega, Bell & Ross anon.
Add to this a private forum that I will kindly call a watch forum and you have a ready made, and in many cases, unquestioning market. Fanboyz as they are known or using the term coined by Jim Skelton, Fuzzy Bunnies seem to buy anything Invicta sells. Add all of those value pays and you have an Omega Bond, Breitling, Stowa or Ball.
The other day, in direct response to the US court documents related to this case being posted at watchgeeks, (the forum run by jim skelton and sponsored by Invicta and shopnbc), a member was banned for posting them or whatever excuse was used to come to the same end. The thread was then removed.
April 22, 2010 at 12:15 pm
As stated above, a member of Watchgeeks.net was banned for posting information about the subject in the above article. Jim Skelton, owner of watchgeeks as well as a shopnbc tv sales person presented this comment.
from Jim Skelton to his members.
“It’s a shame that Sean could not stop badgering certain folks and certain brands. Then when warned to stop posting links to WG-hating forums and content, he continued. Also a shame that he could not hold his temper in PMs.
But as many of us know, Sean has been banned from numerous watch forums over the last year or two… so I suppose it was only a matter of time. Shame really… he had his moments, as demonstrated here.”
Before I post the response from the person banned I need to comment on Skeltons’ remarks. First and foremost, whether a member has been banned elsewhere is irrelevant and is an intrusion into the privacy of that person.
Further more, Skelton just needs to look at himself and his partner Michael Davis to see people having been banned or asked to move on from forums. If they care to dispute the matter, I will provide the evidence. In fact, Mr. Davis sent a threat via email to the owners of BDWF claiming he had taped a inter-state phone conversation between them. The conversation, which took place in 2008 was about Mr. Davis being banned from BDWF. I happen to have that email in my files.
Skelton objected to the court records for the above case in this article being posted. The link the banned party provided was to a scribd page put up by the Admin at Watchlords.com. That would be me.
The response by the banned member, which was posted at XMT.
yamahaki
Xtreme Member
Posts: 288
Join date: 2009-09-08
Subject: Re: another banning Yesterday at 8:37 pm
——————————————————————————–
Heres the link that got me banned.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29810240/Invicta-Watch-Group-Sued-for-Patent-infringement-for-the-Dive-watch-container-being-sold-at-shopnbc
register.they only require your email address.then download the pdf.
Its an eye opener.Eyal lalo got caught red handed stealing.pure evidence and facts.This is one time he can’t get out of it.
Somebody asked a question about why they cancelled his watch case.Another members said it might be because of the suit.
alls I did was post the link since its all over the net anyways.While there,I gave watches and straps away,did my part in supplying
the correct info and gave them brand histories and other things that WG forums lacked.But this is what they do every day since that forum
went private.The owners started that forum to get away from the very thing they became.I’m no angel,but these guys are truely ignorant.
What people need to understand is Watchgeeks in my opinion, shared by many I may add, is NOT a watch forum. It is a sales venue with forums included. It is supported by Invicta Watch Group, and indirectly by Shopnbc.
There is no free thought or free discussions of issues as the banishment of not only the above party, but many others proves.
I was banned by Shopgeeks for posting the letter below. In less than a minute it was removed from the forum by an admin, Flyback, a PM sent to me about it and I was told my status as a member was being reviewed. I posted that on the net since the truth about certain Invicta brands was not being told and Geek members were being hushed, that needed to be made public. I was banned 5 minutes later.
Dear Alain,
As you may know, Swiss law (Swiss federal Ordinance governing the use of the name “Swiss” or “Switzerland” for watches; please see enclosure) gives the criteria which must be met for a watch to be considered as Swiss and to be allowed to bear Swiss indications.
According to Article 3 of this Ordinance, “the name “Switzerland”, indications such as “Swiss”, “Swiss product”, “manufactured in Switzerland”, “Swiss quality” or other appellations which contain the name “Swiss” or “Switzerland” or which may be confused therewith may be used solely for Swiss watches or Swiss watch movements”.
Article 1a of the Ordinance states that a watch may be considered as Swiss if, and only if it fulfills the following minimum criteria:
1. Its movement is Swiss; 2. its movement is cased up in Switzerland, and 3. the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland.
Furthermore, Article 2 of the Ordinance defines the Swiss watch movement as the movement which: 1. has been assembled in Switzerland, and; 2. has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland, and; 3. the components of Swiss manufacture make up for at least 50 percent of the value, without considering the cost for assembly.
According to article 3 of this law, in case the watch only contains a Swiss movement but does not comply with the other requirements, the dial may only bear the indication “Swiss movement”. The word “movement” must appear written out in full in the same type-face, dimension and colour as the appellation “Swiss”. (think Renato)
In other words, a watch bearing the terms “Swiss made” on its dial should not only contain a Swiss movement, but this movement should be cased up in Switzerland and the Swiss manufacturer should have performed the final inspection of the watch.
Swiss law territorial scope of application is of course limited to Switzerland in principle, but thanks to some bilateral treaties, this law is also applicable in some European countries. Furthermore, the Federation is very keen to protect Swiss denominations when associated with watches, especially in the USA, where we have registered certifications marks for the words “Swiss” and “Swiss made”.
According to Invicta’s website, the brand Potger Pietri belongs to their group. The trademark “Potger Pietri” has been registered in the USA by Lalo, Eyal, CEO of Invicta (registration n° 2938664). We do not have any information as to the compliance of the Potger Pietri watches marked “Swiss made” with the Swiss Ordinance mentioned above. WIthout proof that such compliance exists, the watches may not be legally marked “Swiss made”.
Hoping that this information will prove to be useful, and staying at your service, I remain,
Yours sincerely
Vincent S***********
Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH
Legal Department
CH-2501 Bienne
Tel +41 (0)32 328 08 28; Fax +41 (0)32 328 08 80
http://www.fhs.ch
In the past, I posted at geeks, a portion of an interview Eyal Lalo of Invicta gave to Timezone here
http://www.timezone.com/library/tzints/tzints0014
and here
http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/index.php?title=Invicta
The posts in question were removed and Jim Skelton sent me PM stating they would not be allowed unless proof of the interviews and statements were provided. I assume that the proof provided in the links themselves was not proof enough.
I guess the bootm line is pretty simple, if you like a watch buy it, if you want to join a true watch forum, visit our site and there is a suggested links forum. In there you will find links to almost every watch forum and blog known. I encourage people to explore their hobby. If you like geeks, stay there but still explore. You will be very surprised what is out there.
April 26, 2010 at 5:47 pm
You sound like a sore loser who need,s to grow up a little
April 27, 2010 at 11:15 am
With respect Ken, I can’t comment on the banning at watchgeeks since I am not a member of the forum, which is solely underwritten and sponored by Invicta.
I’m much more interested in your analysis of the legal case we are discussing – and your take on Invicta’s business practices – than name calling.
Pointing out a company’s flaws is not bashing.
April 27, 2010 at 3:21 pm
I am not allowed to post anything at watchgeeks.
Steven Hawking told me not to.
April 28, 2010 at 9:19 am
Nice looking watches at very competitive prices, but, never ever require their
non- existent customer customer service. They have no quality control over the factory(ies in China they contract out their work to. There are NO INVICTA FACTORIES! Their watchgeeks.net website makes the Chinese government look liberal.
May 2, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Well Ken,
I really could have cared less about Invicta ( I own some ) and even lass about watchgeeks until the owners, Jim Skelton, Michael Davis anon, as well as George invaded my privacy, conspired to do so, endangered my family and libeled me.
After that, all bets are off until we have a court date, and a judgement one way or another. As the Admin of Watchlords, I do not use private registration information to my own ends, nor will I ever. The same cannot be said for the mouthpiece for Invicta and his cigar smoking, knife loving partner. Nor for the former paid informant that runs around the world of geekdom.
May 8, 2010 at 12:41 am
Ken Ahole is a moron who regularly trolled my blog because he and other watchgeek members didn’t like my conjecture on the object of their fanboi obsession, Jim Skelton.
Buckle in and get ready for a wild ride – these watchgeeks like Michigan based Ken will regularly haunt you now for publish any blog that puts Invicta or ShopNBC’s Jim Skelton in a negative light.
May 11, 2010 at 11:43 am
One has to wonder about those Swiss Factories Invicta has made claims about. You can see one of those claims here pulled from the Invicta Russian Diver ads
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31068226/Invicta-Russian-Diver
From the Invicta corporate Website
Invicta Corporate Headquarters
1 Invicta Way (3069 Taft St)
Hollywood, FL 33021
P:954.921.2444 800.327.7682
F:954.921.4222 954.921.2508
E-mail: sales@invictawatch.com
Invicta Watch Latin America
PO Box 949
Colon Free Zone , Colon
Republic of Panama
P:507.447.1500 507.447.1501
F:507.447.1504
E-mail: invictasa@invictawatch.com
Invicta Watch Europe
Kronenburgpark 12a
5321 JM hedel
The Netherlands
P:031.73.5995660
F:031.73.5995782
E-mail: iwe@invictawatch.com
As to the subject matter, the response by Invicta is here:
http://watchlords.forumotion.net/general-watch-talk-f1/invicta-responds-to-lawsuit-t1927.htm
As a layman I will refrain from commenting on this. I am certain the writer of this blog has far more insight into this response.
May 12, 2010 at 11:38 am
As a quick aside, an issue of mold in some of these plastic cases has forced an alleged recall of ALL of the units.
I find the timing interesting in all of this.
June 13, 2010 at 7:39 am
[...] would that be the kind of "stupidity or delusion" you are talking about. Just wondering? Invicta Gets a 55mm-sized Lawsuit If proven…yes. bob Reply With Quote + Reply to [...]
August 12, 2010 at 12:40 pm
[...] been made aware that Invicta has actually filed suit against Plasticase now. (See THIS POST for the back-story.) I haven’t had a chance to review the pleadings in depth, but the [...]
July 1, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Wow! I have bought a ton of Invictas but did start to wonder about some of this stuff. They were the ones who got me interested in owning more than one watch. Jim could sell a baby a broken bottle. My first Invicta the Pro Diver does look like a Rolex but let’s be real… a Rolex is a Rolex. I was amazed at how I could buy a watch at half price that would normally sell for over 400 dollars when it first comes out. It didn’t take me long to figure out what they were doing. Quantity. I still like most of my Invicta’s. With the new Sea Spider and the Seagull movement which is made in China: I was like: hmmmm okay I see where they are going. I have a Russian Diver that says Swiss and the new ones are produced in China. Hopefully they will stop the shady business as I think they can do quite well without it. I own over 20 but have started looking at other brands mostly from Shop NBC. Most of those watches are starting to look the same pretty much. I saw a Subaqua Noma 3 in Costco for 179 and a Subaqua Noma 4 for just over 200 hundred… cheaper than Shop NBC… so those value pays is what will get you going. I have just begun looking into types of movements etc… where I was stockpiling numbers before. Mostly Invictas (poor man’s collection). Not bad but I don’t want to buy from Shady People.
July 18, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Paul says:
Invicta is the worst watch that I have ever bought from ShopNBC with the help of Jim Skelton hyping that company. Sent a couple back for repair that fell apart out of the box and paid over 1k for them and had to pay shipping both ways?…will never buy a watch from them again! I never had a problem with Android (best value and innovation for the money), Croton or the other brands that Jim promoted that I have purchased. I made a mistake by purchasing battery powered and only a couple self winders and now all the batteries are depleting only after a couple of years. Had a Seiko for over 5 years before the battery needed changed All the comments made are right on the money and the MSRP prices and those big discounts are a clever way to suck out your credit card money. Bought my wife a Seiko at Macy’s at a better price and it charges itself from any light source. Anyone want to buy a bunch of ShopNBC watches? I am sure that JIm (now gone) and all the other watch cronies are laughing all the way to the bank! – of course along with ShopNBC!!
October 28, 2011 at 3:29 pm
I too, have been a member at ‘the Geeks’ only to have resigned after having my posts deleted & bashed for stating my opinion ! I’ve never thought everyone had to agree w/ me or I them, in fact that would be boring. But to be a complying member at watchgeeks is to put Invicta, skelton, lalo, davis, etc. on a mountain top & bow to them at every turn. This I could/would not do, although I made sure to torture them on my way out. Almost all that is being said here is not news to me or new to me! ….These folks are just that SLEAZY (THE GEEKS)