Invicta evokes a polarizing response from “watch geeks.” Some appreciate the value-priced quality while others sniff that Invicta is merely a “TV brand” due to its ubiquitous presence on ShopNBC. Still others delight in the (fictional) misfortunes of its CEO from disgruntled purchasers. More recently, Invicta has been blazing a trail in the oversized watch market. (For reference, the typical Rolex “Submariner” style dive watch case is about 40 millimeters. Invicta is now regularly producing watches with cases over 50 millimeters in size and 20 millimeters thick.)
Me – I’ve grown tired of the typical home shopping TV doublespeak. “One time only” prices that magically get lower the next month; “limited editions” that are offered again and again with slight deviations in design; a “Reserve” line that was supposed to be, uh, reserved, for extra-premium timepieces that now cost less than the non-Reserve line. I could go on. And on.
The Invicta shows on ShopNBC do make for an entertaining evening at home. Whether it’s the host’s thinly-veiled, juvenile jokes about “brown eye” dials and “slapping a beaver” on your wrist, or the feigned astonishment and gasps that precede “that price must be a mistake,” you can’t beat live home-shopping TV.
So I might be biased as I write about this new lawsuit against Invicta. I take it personally. Invicta’s CEO, Eyal Lalo, seems to be a pretty ethical guy. Back when the host of ShopNBC’s watch shows was known as “OompaLupah” on a watch forum that I frequented, Eyal personally responded to customer questions and even sent a bunch of us a fancy Invicta watch box. (I’ll sell mine to anyone interested if the price is right…)
Eyal also constantly remarks about how he is the named inventor on multiple patents covering the designs of Invicta watches. He recognizes the importance of patents, and he should. The Invicta Lupah design is widely copied by other manufacturers.
So, that’s why reading this Complaint is so tough. Despite my love/hate relationship with Invicta and its marketing channels, I tend to support the brand overall.
A few months ago they started selling a new watch design with several 
interchangeable straps and bracelets. The whole thing was packaged in a “submarine case.” If my memory is correct, they also use a little animation that looked like a CAD drawing of the case opening up to reveal the watch and straps. They also offer the case by itself, and I believe that several other Invicta models are shipped out in this style case now.
Imagine my surprise, then, when I saw:
Plasticase, Inc. v. Invicta Watch Company of America
(Complaint HERE, Exhibits HERE)
Damn. The case was filed April 6, 2010 in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida.
The allegations are straightforward. Eyal calls company to see about having some plastic storage cases customized for use with watches. Company sends sample cases to Eyal. Eyal never responds with an order or “no thanks.” Company sees its patented case design on national TV. Company calls Eyal to see if he intends to order any cases based on the samples. Eyal says he is “passing on the opportunity.” Oops.
If true, the allegations paint a very disappointing picture of this watch company and its charismatic CEO. Plasticase is basically saying that Eyal ordered some sample cases then, rather than order from the company that designed the cases, he shipped them off to China to have them made cheaper.
As you already know from reading this blog, fairly recent changes have occurred in the infringement analysis for design patents. In a “knockoff” case like this, the patentee-friendly Egyptian Goddess standard might not even matter. If the case doesn’t settle soon, Plasticase should get everything it needs for a slam dunk via discovery requests. Invoices from China and Eyal’s own conduct in ordering the samples is 80% of this case. Add in plaintiff’s design patents and proper marking of the cases, and this should be over.
Of course, Invicta hasn’t answered yet, and the Complaint is obviously slanted to one side. Invicta is innocent until proven guilty. This is definitely one case that I’ll be following with interest.
I’ll even make this deal – if the case goes in Plasticase’s favor on summary judgment or via a jury verdict, via multiple choice, I’ll let my readers choose the fate of one of my Invicta watches, and I’ll post a video of the destruction.
Florida IP Trends 
You are actually too kind to Invicta and its CEO, who constantly walks the edge – and frequently falls over the line – in his ZEAL to move product.
For years, he referred to watches as Swiss when they were actually “Swiss Parts” meaning assembled in Asia with some parts made in Switzerland and other slights of hand.
But to the core of this case, Invicta is a knockoff brand. It gained initial market traction with the 8926 – a deadringer Rolex Submariner “homage.” It has also feasted off “homages” to other famous designs.
While I agree the filing is one-sided and Invicta is innocent until the charges are proven, at the moment I have very little reason to doubt the accusations based on Mr. Lalo’s track record.
Where you see a crafty businessman, I see a modern-day PT Barnum.
Invicta has been involved with numerous cases similar to this.
A lot of history here though
1:02-cv-10133-BSJ Cartier Intl B.V., et al v. Invicta Watch, et al
Barbara S. Jones, presiding
Date filed: 12/20/2002
Date terminated: 03/08/2004
Date of last filing: 03/11/2004
1:98-cv-04395-SAS-DFE Citizen Watch Co. v. Invicta Watch Co., et al
Shira A. Scheindlin, presiding
Douglas F. Eaton, referral
Date filed: 06/23/1998
Date terminated: 10/13/1998
Date of last filing: 10/13/1998
The Swatch lawsuit was settled out of court and dismissed. Settlement not disclosed.
1:07-cv-00839-DC The Swatch Group Management Services AG et al v. Invicta Watch Company of America, Inc. et al
Denny Chin, presiding
Date filed: 02/02/2007
Date terminated: 07/14/2008
Date of last filing: 07/14/2008
Settled out of court and dismissed on 1/15/2010.
1:09-cv-02479-PAC Invicta S.P.A. v. Invicta Watch Company of America, Inc.
Paul A. Crotty, presiding
Date filed: 03/18/2009
Date terminated: 01/15/2010
Date of last filing: 01/15/2010
One can speculate how this will go though. Invicta responds, a protective order is signed and the case goes away with no details divulged. In reality, Invicta pays a bunch.
I am very curious why all of this surprises people though. if you look at some of the watches Invicta and others make, they are “homage” watches to the original such as Rolex, Omega, Bell & Ross anon.
Add to this a private forum that I will kindly call a watch forum and you have a ready made, and in many cases, unquestioning market. Fanboyz as they are known or using the term coined by Jim Skelton, Fuzzy Bunnies seem to buy anything Invicta sells. Add all of those value pays and you have an Omega Bond, Breitling, Stowa or Ball.
The other day, in direct response to the US court documents related to this case being posted at watchgeeks, (the forum run by jim skelton and sponsored by Invicta and shopnbc), a member was banned for posting them or whatever excuse was used to come to the same end. The thread was then removed.
As stated above, a member of Watchgeeks.net was banned for posting information about the subject in the above article. Jim Skelton, owner of watchgeeks as well as a shopnbc tv sales person presented this comment.
from Jim Skelton to his members.
“It’s a shame that Sean could not stop badgering certain folks and certain brands. Then when warned to stop posting links to WG-hating forums and content, he continued. Also a shame that he could not hold his temper in PMs.
But as many of us know, Sean has been banned from numerous watch forums over the last year or two… so I suppose it was only a matter of time. Shame really… he had his moments, as demonstrated here.”
Before I post the response from the person banned I need to comment on Skeltons’ remarks. First and foremost, whether a member has been banned elsewhere is irrelevant and is an intrusion into the privacy of that person.
Further more, Skelton just needs to look at himself and his partner Michael Davis to see people having been banned or asked to move on from forums. If they care to dispute the matter, I will provide the evidence. In fact, Mr. Davis sent a threat via email to the owners of BDWF claiming he had taped a inter-state phone conversation between them. The conversation, which took place in 2008 was about Mr. Davis being banned from BDWF. I happen to have that email in my files.
Skelton objected to the court records for the above case in this article being posted. The link the banned party provided was to a scribd page put up by the Admin at Watchlords.com. That would be me.
The response by the banned member, which was posted at XMT.
yamahaki
Xtreme Member
Posts: 288
Join date: 2009-09-08
Subject: Re: another banning Yesterday at 8:37 pm
——————————————————————————–
Heres the link that got me banned.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29810240/Invicta-Watch-Group-Sued-for-Patent-infringement-for-the-Dive-watch-container-being-sold-at-shopnbc
register.they only require your email address.then download the pdf.
Its an eye opener.Eyal lalo got caught red handed stealing.pure evidence and facts.This is one time he can’t get out of it.
Somebody asked a question about why they cancelled his watch case.Another members said it might be because of the suit.
alls I did was post the link since its all over the net anyways.While there,I gave watches and straps away,did my part in supplying
the correct info and gave them brand histories and other things that WG forums lacked.But this is what they do every day since that forum
went private.The owners started that forum to get away from the very thing they became.I’m no angel,but these guys are truely ignorant.
What people need to understand is Watchgeeks in my opinion, shared by many I may add, is NOT a watch forum. It is a sales venue with forums included. It is supported by Invicta Watch Group, and indirectly by Shopnbc.
There is no free thought or free discussions of issues as the banishment of not only the above party, but many others proves.
I was banned by Shopgeeks for posting the letter below. In less than a minute it was removed from the forum by an admin, Flyback, a PM sent to me about it and I was told my status as a member was being reviewed. I posted that on the net since the truth about certain Invicta brands was not being told and Geek members were being hushed, that needed to be made public. I was banned 5 minutes later.
Dear Alain,
As you may know, Swiss law (Swiss federal Ordinance governing the use of the name “Swiss” or “Switzerland” for watches; please see enclosure) gives the criteria which must be met for a watch to be considered as Swiss and to be allowed to bear Swiss indications.
According to Article 3 of this Ordinance, “the name “Switzerland”, indications such as “Swiss”, “Swiss product”, “manufactured in Switzerland”, “Swiss quality” or other appellations which contain the name “Swiss” or “Switzerland” or which may be confused therewith may be used solely for Swiss watches or Swiss watch movements”.
Article 1a of the Ordinance states that a watch may be considered as Swiss if, and only if it fulfills the following minimum criteria:
1. Its movement is Swiss; 2. its movement is cased up in Switzerland, and 3. the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland.
Furthermore, Article 2 of the Ordinance defines the Swiss watch movement as the movement which: 1. has been assembled in Switzerland, and; 2. has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland, and; 3. the components of Swiss manufacture make up for at least 50 percent of the value, without considering the cost for assembly.
According to article 3 of this law, in case the watch only contains a Swiss movement but does not comply with the other requirements, the dial may only bear the indication “Swiss movement”. The word “movement” must appear written out in full in the same type-face, dimension and colour as the appellation “Swiss”. (think Renato)
In other words, a watch bearing the terms “Swiss made” on its dial should not only contain a Swiss movement, but this movement should be cased up in Switzerland and the Swiss manufacturer should have performed the final inspection of the watch.
Swiss law territorial scope of application is of course limited to Switzerland in principle, but thanks to some bilateral treaties, this law is also applicable in some European countries. Furthermore, the Federation is very keen to protect Swiss denominations when associated with watches, especially in the USA, where we have registered certifications marks for the words “Swiss” and “Swiss made”.
According to Invicta’s website, the brand Potger Pietri belongs to their group. The trademark “Potger Pietri” has been registered in the USA by Lalo, Eyal, CEO of Invicta (registration n° 2938664). We do not have any information as to the compliance of the Potger Pietri watches marked “Swiss made” with the Swiss Ordinance mentioned above. WIthout proof that such compliance exists, the watches may not be legally marked “Swiss made”.
Hoping that this information will prove to be useful, and staying at your service, I remain,
Yours sincerely
Vincent S***********
Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH
Legal Department
CH-2501 Bienne
Tel +41 (0)32 328 08 28; Fax +41 (0)32 328 08 80
http://www.fhs.ch
In the past, I posted at geeks, a portion of an interview Eyal Lalo of Invicta gave to Timezone here
http://www.timezone.com/library/tzints/tzints0014
and here
http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/index.php?title=Invicta
The posts in question were removed and Jim Skelton sent me PM stating they would not be allowed unless proof of the interviews and statements were provided. I assume that the proof provided in the links themselves was not proof enough.
I guess the bootm line is pretty simple, if you like a watch buy it, if you want to join a true watch forum, visit our site and there is a suggested links forum. In there you will find links to almost every watch forum and blog known. I encourage people to explore their hobby. If you like geeks, stay there but still explore. You will be very surprised what is out there.
You sound like a sore loser who need,s to grow up a little
With respect Ken, I can’t comment on the banning at watchgeeks since I am not a member of the forum, which is solely underwritten and sponored by Invicta.
I’m much more interested in your analysis of the legal case we are discussing – and your take on Invicta’s business practices – than name calling.
Pointing out a company’s flaws is not bashing.
I am not allowed to post anything at watchgeeks.
Steven Hawking told me not to.
Nice looking watches at very competitive prices, but, never ever require their
non- existent customer customer service. They have no quality control over the factory(ies in China they contract out their work to. There are NO INVICTA FACTORIES! Their watchgeeks.net website makes the Chinese government look liberal.
Well Ken,
I really could have cared less about Invicta ( I own some ) and even lass about watchgeeks until the owners, Jim Skelton, Michael Davis anon, as well as George invaded my privacy, conspired to do so, endangered my family and libeled me.
After that, all bets are off until we have a court date, and a judgement one way or another. As the Admin of Watchlords, I do not use private registration information to my own ends, nor will I ever. The same cannot be said for the mouthpiece for Invicta and his cigar smoking, knife loving partner. Nor for the former paid informant that runs around the world of geekdom.
Ken Ahole is a moron who regularly trolled my blog because he and other watchgeek members didn’t like my conjecture on the object of their fanboi obsession, Jim Skelton.
Buckle in and get ready for a wild ride – these watchgeeks like Michigan based Ken will regularly haunt you now for publish any blog that puts Invicta or ShopNBC’s Jim Skelton in a negative light.
One has to wonder about those Swiss Factories Invicta has made claims about. You can see one of those claims here pulled from the Invicta Russian Diver ads
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31068226/Invicta-Russian-Diver
From the Invicta corporate Website
Invicta Corporate Headquarters
1 Invicta Way (3069 Taft St)
Hollywood, FL 33021
P:954.921.2444 800.327.7682
F:954.921.4222 954.921.2508
E-mail: sales@invictawatch.com
Invicta Watch Latin America
PO Box 949
Colon Free Zone , Colon
Republic of Panama
P:507.447.1500 507.447.1501
F:507.447.1504
E-mail: invictasa@invictawatch.com
Invicta Watch Europe
Kronenburgpark 12a
5321 JM hedel
The Netherlands
P:031.73.5995660
F:031.73.5995782
E-mail: iwe@invictawatch.com
As to the subject matter, the response by Invicta is here:
http://watchlords.forumotion.net/general-watch-talk-f1/invicta-responds-to-lawsuit-t1927.htm
As a layman I will refrain from commenting on this. I am certain the writer of this blog has far more insight into this response.
As a quick aside, an issue of mold in some of these plastic cases has forced an alleged recall of ALL of the units.
I find the timing interesting in all of this.
Wow! I have bought a ton of Invictas but did start to wonder about some of this stuff. They were the ones who got me interested in owning more than one watch. Jim could sell a baby a broken bottle. My first Invicta the Pro Diver does look like a Rolex but let’s be real… a Rolex is a Rolex. I was amazed at how I could buy a watch at half price that would normally sell for over 400 dollars when it first comes out. It didn’t take me long to figure out what they were doing. Quantity. I still like most of my Invicta’s. With the new Sea Spider and the Seagull movement which is made in China: I was like: hmmmm okay I see where they are going. I have a Russian Diver that says Swiss and the new ones are produced in China. Hopefully they will stop the shady business as I think they can do quite well without it. I own over 20 but have started looking at other brands mostly from Shop NBC. Most of those watches are starting to look the same pretty much. I saw a Subaqua Noma 3 in Costco for 179 and a Subaqua Noma 4 for just over 200 hundred… cheaper than Shop NBC… so those value pays is what will get you going. I have just begun looking into types of movements etc… where I was stockpiling numbers before. Mostly Invictas (poor man’s collection). Not bad but I don’t want to buy from Shady People.
Paul says:
Invicta is the worst watch that I have ever bought from ShopNBC with the help of Jim Skelton hyping that company. Sent a couple back for repair that fell apart out of the box and paid over 1k for them and had to pay shipping both ways?…will never buy a watch from them again! I never had a problem with Android (best value and innovation for the money), Croton or the other brands that Jim promoted that I have purchased. I made a mistake by purchasing battery powered and only a couple self winders and now all the batteries are depleting only after a couple of years. Had a Seiko for over 5 years before the battery needed changed All the comments made are right on the money and the MSRP prices and those big discounts are a clever way to suck out your credit card money. Bought my wife a Seiko at Macy’s at a better price and it charges itself from any light source. Anyone want to buy a bunch of ShopNBC watches? I am sure that JIm (now gone) and all the other watch cronies are laughing all the way to the bank! – of course along with ShopNBC!!
I too, have been a member at ‘the Geeks’ only to have resigned after having my posts deleted & bashed for stating my opinion ! I’ve never thought everyone had to agree w/ me or I them, in fact that would be boring. But to be a complying member at watchgeeks is to put Invicta, skelton, lalo, davis, etc. on a mountain top & bow to them at every turn. This I could/would not do, although I made sure to torture them on my way out. Almost all that is being said here is not news to me or new to me! ….These folks are just that SLEAZY (THE GEEKS)
It’s great to see the Invicta bubble burst. Wise-up people, if you saw someone selling a Rolex for two hundred dollars you would think something isn’t right. Well, it’s the same same with Invicta. Think a minute, how can a company sell what they call Swiss watches at a fraction of what others companies can, the answer is they can’t! Invicta’s are made in Asia
So Invicta DOES NOT actually manufacture their watches in Switzerland? Really?! I seriously DID NOT KNOW THAT. Invicta actually subcontracts their watch manufacturing using factories in China? WTF?! No wonder the two Invicta watches I bought (from ShopNBC) a few years ago fell-apart. (The bracelet came apart from the the body and the hands inside the watch and the lettering and the lume stickers.) If Invicta is using sub-standard manufacturing labor and facilities (in any country, from anywhere, not just China)then it’s no wonder that at least some Invicta’s timepieces are of terrible quality. My next timepiece will be a Rolex, or an Omega or a quality brand-name timepiece that I can be assured and certified Swiss-made.
Thank-you for the information.
This is to ShopNBC and Invicta and Eyal Lalo, President and C.E.O. of Invicta Watch Group. I have been scammed and ripped-off by you Mr. Lalo and by extention ShopNBC. I ACTUALLY believed you people. I ACTUALLY believed that I could buy a quality timepiece at a reasonable price with decent customer service.
I was decieved.
P.S. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and walks like a duck…
P,S.S. MAYBE if I were to purchase a high-end Invicta timepiece, say ($1,000.00 to $2,000.00 or more) than MAYBE I would be a satisfied customer, MAYBE not. But if ANY of Invicta Watch Group’s timepieces are manufactured ANYWHERE other than Switzerland, then we all now know that Invicta Watch Group is only concerned with one thing and one thing ONLY. Short-term profit. Eventually the truth ALWAYS comes-out. Invicta is a knock-off watch company, and Invicta manufactures their products in Asia and will soon be out of business due to their deceptive business practices and customer deception.
Has anyone ever hear the term Troll? There are a few here. It’s a waste of time top read these postings
I find it amusing that “Watchlords” accuses watch geeks of banning people if hey disagree with the ‘invicta” way …..When in fact that is what Watchlords and their misguided leader that has nothing better to do since life brought him some misfortune a few years ago. Anyone that has a different opinion then what Watchlords pushes gets banned immediately.
It is a shame that such angry people can not or will not find a more positive way to deal with their issues.
i would like to know who won the case between the two of them
Well Larry, you asked to have your account deactivated, no one banned you as you well know. You accessed Watchlords with your own agenda which bit you in the ass. As to my misfortune, the death of my wife of 30 years, it is irrelevant to my dislike for Invicta, again something you well know.
http://watchlords.forumotion.net/t1565-invicta-sued-for-patent-infringment-court-documents-on-portal-for-viewing#142824
We can discuss at length the fake sandstone dials, the fake relationship with Dubois Depraz, the eco friendly mother of pearl dials made from mussels in a lake so toxic the chinese in the area truck drinking water in. There is a long list we can discuss.
Reality is you like Invicta regardless of what they do. That is fine but try not to find excuses for your behavior by trying to state as fact that the death of my wife set me against Invicta. We have gone after Doxa and others with the same zeal.
And the case was setled out of court.
This isn’t about WatchLords, “Larry,” and as usual, you re-create facts, as you do on most forums you take part in; you weren’t “banned” from Watchlords, you quit … after defending criticisms of a Ronco Rotisserie Oven. I’m serious, gang. In addition, Larry, you rip into people and then don’t have the courage to have a debate with them – you either block them or simply run and hide. Here’s a fact: WatchLords now does band complete trolls – you know, people who post ridiculous things in hopes of getting some sort of an angered response. Sort of like you, Larry. Hey – how did those drumsticks come out?
Larry is a shitbird.
you can say whatever you want…..You know and I know the truth and that is all that counts.
i have watched your event on tv and have tried for 5 days to order the blue watch box and no-one can tell me a thing, yet you show it as part of the presentation. I have collected Invicta for over ten years and I need or would like this box. Why the mystery? Please help as I am out of people to contact.
i am in a pissing match with Invicta and shopnbc right now over a red 8 slot div case ( really 2 of them ) as they have jacked me around like an old hound dog. I own over 200 invictas but if they do not do the right thing with this I will not buy another watch from them. I have had all of this crap I want, Harold the world famous beachbum !!!
There is too much controversy concerning Invicta. I would never buy a new one again. The company lies too much, it’s documented how they are not truthful. Why take a chance, when one can purchase a reputable name.
Wow Larry, you really have spun things far from the facts. I hope there is someone there to help you sharpen your crayons, change your diapers and helmets. I hate to think that someone would leave you all alone to do it yourself.
I bought a white ‘silicone/rubber’ and gold-coloured chronograph from them in late 2011 as a christmas present from my dad to me. It was worn for 4 weeks when the strap became very grimy and none of the methods suggested by the Invicta people to clean it, worked. Finally in mid february I called them to complain and was told that I could order and pay for a new strap. Having a useless watch was a worse option so reluctantly I agreed. This time I ordered a black one figuring that at least it won’t show the dirt! They told me it would cost $57 and take 6 to 8 weeks.I gave them my credit card details, thinking that a large company like that should at the least have taken back my watch and replaced the faulty strap for free. I have now waited 5 and a half months and not heard a thing from them. I finally phoned up today and got the usual run around from a customer no-service person who finally gave her name as Jennifer Sheaffer, refused to let me speak to a manager telling me that there was none and then pass me off to another department, to speak to someone called Melissa ?, who flat out refused to give her surname. She told me she would have to specially order the part and when I protested at this ridiculous delay and asked to speak to a supervisor was extremely reluctant to do so.Finally, she put me through to someone called Melvin ‘No-Name’, who, of course was ‘on the phone’ and I was forced to leave a message on his answering machine. I do not hope to recieve a reply! I have a watgh that has cost several hundred dollars sitting in a box while it’s warranty expires and this company continues to abuse it’s customers. Like the previous gentleman said, never buy a watch from Invicta because if you need customer service you can forget about it!
I must admit … as a relatively new Invicta “junkie” it’s surprising and disappointing to see all the negativity about the comapny, it’s watched and it’s customer service. Whether any or all this is true, one things for sure … I’m gonna dramaticly slow my roll on buying … I’m already over 70 watches in less than a year !!!
If you want truth, go to watchlords.com and there is a sub forum dedicated to invicta and the lies they have told.
I did a computer search to find out how to find the Invicta corporate members and CEO names. To file a complaint straight to the top and just happened to come across this site. Can someone direct me to the proper forum to publish my case on how I have been treated by Invicta NON-Customer Service Department. I want to get the word out to as many people as I can. Those that don’t know about Invicta will think twice before even thinking about purchasing a watch from them. Even if it’s affordable and on value pay from ShopNBC. A company is as good as it’s warranty and service department. Both of which Invicta has non of.
The CEO’s name and all the e-mail addresses and information you are looking for is very easy to find. There are a couple of forums to vent your frustrations, but the people that buy Invicta’s aren’t there to read it, nor do they care.
Invicta is the perfect watch to buy for someone who you hate. They don’t keep time. The self-winding watches die in 20 hours of non-use. They want $27 for “shipping” to fix the watch but they won’t tell if they will even repair the watch or not, and if they don’t fix it, it costs you another $27 to send it in again.
Love the watch, hate the company. Bought a subaqua noma4,stopped working 2months later. Mailed it back and didn’t see it again for 6 Months. Customer service is the worst. Will never buy another watch from them
@Richard Howes: In response to “[Invictas] don’t keep time”, I have to tell you my story. First a little history. I have proudly owned and worn a Rolex Submariner for a decade. It’s a very nice watch. My wife owns a Rolex two-tone Datejust. Also a very nice watch. However, these watches are both very expensive. Prices today are around $8,000 and $9,000, respectively. We had to get my wife’s Datejust fixed recently for $500. And it took a few weeks.
So, we have a nice history with Rolex and really nothing bad to say about the brand.
Now, about my Invicta watches. I recently purchased two Invicta Pro Divers with Japanese automatic movements. I purchased them because I don’t want to spend $8,000 or $9,000 every time I want to wear a new watch. Neither of them are marked with the word “Swiss” anywhere on the dial or the case. They’re both marked “JAPAN MOVT”. Both of the Invictas keep better time than the Rolex. When off my wrist I usually keep them sitting right next to a Casio atomic watch which gets updated nightly with the precise time. There’s just no disputing that the Rolex is the least accurate of the three watches. There’s also no disputing that the Rolex costs 100x more than the Invictas.
I’m not a watch collector. I’m not a watch snob. I’m not biased. To each his own. I don’t care about Eyal Lalo or his band of salesmen. I stumbled upon sites like this looking for more information about Invicta because I was really impressed with the Pro Divers, and in doing so I’ve learned that a lot of people really, really despise Invicta. That’s fine with me, but I can’t reconcile it with my own experience. Maybe the average Invicta hater has no real knowledge of “premium” brand watches. That is, they don’t know that watches that cost 100x more than an Invicta don’t keep great time and often have to be repaired at substantial cost due to mechanical failure. Maybe they have an idyllic and unreasonable view of the premium brand watches because they’ve never owned one. You know, the grass is always greener…
Here’s my analysis. An automatic Invicta Pro Diver sells for about $85. That means the retailer paid Invicta no more than about $45 to $50 for the watch. For Invicta to make a fair profit, they produced the watch for no more than $20. This means Invicta can make a watch that looks just like a Rolex Submariner and that keeps better time than a Rolex Submariner, for around $20, maybe less. This also means that Rolex could make their Submariner for around $20 with a) a little ingenuity, or b) less exorbitant wages for their workers. But it’s not just the highly paid Swiss workers that are the “problem” with the Rolex brand prices. Part of the issue is their marketing. Rolex pays celebrity athletes presumably millions to market their products. Rolex also sponsors important sporting events worldwide, and pays substantially for it. Invicta, on the other hand, hires a couple of hot, unknown models to pose in bikinis on a beach to make a downloadable calendar. And they sell direct to consumers on TV. Plus there’s just a fundamental difference in philosophy. Invicta has decided to sell for less to more people, while Rolex has decided to sell for more to far fewer people.
Another difference is true, objective quality. Like solid gold versus gold plated steel. Or sapphire versus “flame fusion” crystals. Of course, some premium brand watches are without-a-doubt higher quality because the materials used are more valuable or more durable. When Eyal Lalo says no one can match Invicta quality, I’m pretty sure he means AT THE SAME PRICE POINT. The guy really doesn’t mean gold plated steel is higher quality than solid gold.
Now, let me ask you all something about your feelings toward the guys running the show at these two companies. You think the guy running Rolex has never told a lie? You think he’s never cheated on his wife, or in his business? You think he’s never lifted a design element from another watch maker? You think he’s 100% ethical 100% of the time? You think he’s not a cutthroat competitor in the watch industry? You think he’s never been sued? You think he’s not despised by many? If you think these things you could be right (again, I don’t follow this stuff). But I would bet otherwise. He’s just not putting himself on TV making himself available for scrutiny. That doesn’t mean he’s an angel, though.
People feel more comfortable acknowledging that a more expensive brand is a better brand. People are uncomfortable with acknowledging that lower-cost items can sometimes be better than higher-cost items. It’s the same with clothes, shoes, cars, houses, etc.
I know what I know. You all know what you know. Buy the watch you like from the company you like. Let people make up their own minds.
Just some food for thought.
I have bought over 40 Invicta watches from $69 to $500 and THEY ALL KEEP PERFECT TIME and never had any problem with any one of them. Abuse your watch and it will break. Sounds like some of you guys should start a HISSY FIT FORUM
I am curious about one thing in this long and older thread, why do people continue to compare Invicta to Rolex? Rolex has their own factory, they make their cases, movements, dials, bands. Everything Rolex has in a watch is made by them. They use 904 Stainless Steel in their watches, not 316. And Rolex is not a luxury brand. They are a mid-range brand at best. A Lange and Sohne, Alain Silberstein, Audemars Piguet, Blancpain, Breguet, Franck Muller, JLC, Parmigiani, Patek Phillipe, Ulysse Nardin, Vacheron Constantin. These are luxury brands. Enjoy your watches.
INVICTA watches are the best watches you can buy for under $500 or less. Seriously, Seiko, Bulova, Citizen, etc., pale in comparison. Some of the styles are fabulous and shame brands like Movado. OVERPRICED WATCHES WITH A “DOT”!
INVICTAS are now sold at J C PENNEY, SEARS, BOSTON STORE, MACYS, SAMS CLUB AND COSTCO. WHY?
Yeah until you need service. Just wait and see. You will need service then you will wish you had bought a more reputable brand. That actually stands behind their quality and customer service. Of which Invicta knows nothing of. They only know how to market and sell the cheapest watch for the money.
I am happy that you think Invicta is the best watch for $500 or less. That would of course eliminate Hamilton, Tissot, Marathon, Boschett, Seiko, Citizen and I can think of at least a couple of dozen more brands that cost under $500.
Of course none of the brands I mentioned except Invicta have sold watches with sandstone dials which were plastic, or SWISS movements marked china. Ah well, there is a sucker and a troll born every minute. As to Andrew, I will post a real time photo of my Rolex 16800 if you post yours. Anyone who owns a Rolex, a real one, would never post the garbage you have. You are ignorant and a troll. 904 steel vs 316, their own movement, a real Swiss factory, COSC certification on every watch. I could go on but then again why bother?
Why are Invicta watches sold at Pennys, Sears and the rest. Dumping stock they cannot sell at pennies on the $$$. The companies get cheap Chinese fashion watches that some would waste money on or they will browse the cheap invictas, spot a Seiko and buy that.
Because Gary….the overhead is dirt cheap. Invicta’s MSRP are so inflated as to be comical. You really think that Citizen and Bulova and Seiko “pale in comparison”? Do a Google search and learn and don’t embarrass yourself with idiotic comments
I agree with Roy regarding Seiko, Citizen and Bulova, and will add another Japanese brand, Orient. FWIW, Bulova remains a US brand with US HQ and management even though it’s owned by Citizen now. It has some level of independence in its operations similar to how the various Swatch Group brands have significant independence. IOW, Bulova is not making Citizen watches with Bulova logos. We can argue style and graphic design, and that is sheer opine. If you like the Invicta styles, buy them. By comparison to the above mentioned four brands though, Invicta Quality Control is quite poor. Worse yet, their Customer Support, Service Support, and Warranty Support is positively abysmal. It’s so bad that the Florida Attorney General has started legal action against Invicta.
Regarding pricing, Invicta’s suggested retail prices are laughable given what the actual street prices for the watches. Actual street prices for nearly all watch brands are discounted from the suggested retail, and for most you can find them discounted 20-40%, mostly from non-AD gray market Internet storefronts, which is nowhere near the discounting found on Invictas. As a brand, Invicta is one of the watch industry buffoons, starting with Eyal Lalo’s buffoonery. They have had a handful of decent watches over the years, and I own one of the (real) Swiss Made ETA 7750 chronographs, because the price was right on it for what’s under the dial, but IMHO it’s nearly all by accident, and not by design.
Want to know how good invicta is? Go to the Walmart web sight and look them up. Is that not were all fine watches are sold?
@John:
They’re also sold by Sam’s Club and by Costco, but those two have also sold some higher end watches. Movado is a regular, and I did a double-take seeing Breitling in a Sam’s Club a few years ago.
@John
BTW . . . I didn’t know Walmart carried them 😀
I have been an Invicta buyers and own more than 50 of their watches. Recently I found that they are misleading their customers on warranty. They claim the watch is covered for 1 or 5 years based on the type of watch. But it is lie they only cover movement and other internal parts only underwarranty.However they claim on TV shows that “your watch is covered for 1 or 5 years”. Total lie. I found this out when I sent my Bolt Zues with a manufacturing defect into their service center and they refused to repair it and wanted 200 hundred dollars for repair. This is a reserve watch and comes with 5 year meaningless warrantyI had boght this watch from Evine in January of this year.
I bought an Invicta 2yrs ago on July 4th and it has kept perfect time, so i bought another one on July 4th of this year. Remember……It’s always about the money, even when it’s not about the money…..it’s about the money!!!!
The question is not about keeping correct time. It is the after sales service which is of lowest quality and Invivta are not truthful in stating the watch warranty. They say that reserve watches are covered for 5 years but it is a lie. They do not cover even the manufacting defects. I came to know about this when I had sent one of reserve watches out of 50 (within 4 months of my purchase) into their service center and they asked $194 to repair the watch. When I told them that it has 5 years warranty they told me that it is not covered under warranty. Only internal parts like movement is covered and they are very unprofessional in their behavior. I will never another Invicta watch in future.
I have several invictas, however, will not buy another. I had one that the quit, so sent it in for repair (under warranty) however, after 5 months, and me waiting on hold for 30-50 minutes (several times)trying to find out the problem, I got email saying it could not be fixed,but they would keep it for parts. they finally sent me a replacement watch, not as nice as the one I sent, but ok. The day I got it,
the date was about 12 day behind, so tried to set it only to find out the stem workings could not allow it to be set, so had to turn the hands around by hand to get to the correct day setting. this was a “Grand Diver” watch. Itried to call the compny, and after three calls, and hold waits again for 35-40 minutes, I emailed the rep to call me and left my number they never return calls, only eml
My bright yellow Sea Spider strap watch turned Sea muck dinge yellow within a week. The porous material absorbed dirt like the sea absorbs sunlight. There was literally no way to get it clean and certainly none to keep it that way, after 1/2 hour on hold an Invicta rep recommended a toothbrush. Well, I’d had enough… I got ingenious. I used an outdoor Rustoleum clear spray paint to seal it. It’s now my gardening/mechanic watch… but ya know, the dirt wipes right off. Sad… I was so happy when I originally bought it for my 50th birthday and handed over $225 to ShopNBC… until I saw it on ebay the next week for $99. Then I put a big gouge in watch’s soft main body and literally destroyed a pusher. Hey, you know it actually actually sanded out pretty well… although a little uneven. I forget how much they wanted exactly for a new one, but I know it was way more than I was willing to pay for a tiny chunk of plastic. Oh well… live and learn… this week I’ve been thinking of spray painting it black… I like black, and it hides the dirt.
They are still scamming people out of money.http://watchintyme.com/showthread.php?14994-Opened-my-Corduba-Enforcer-this-morning&highlight=corduba and what happened when people paid the $28 to return their watches under warranty to get the Valjoux 7750 movement they paid for but received a cheap SW 500 instead. http://watchintyme.com/showthread.php?15400-Invicta-7750-Exchange-Process&highlight=corduba
http://watchlords.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31
I will say the watches are good but god forbid if you have to deal with their customer service “good luck”
The customer service is at the lowest ebb. Arrogant, rude and unprofessional. I do not why Eyal Lalo their CEO is not embarrassed at the customer service conditions. I can only say that either he is a moron or does not care about his customers
@ Dinesh Dixit
I believe it’s both: Eyal Lalo is a moron because he doesn’t care about quality control or customer and warranty service. The one Invicta I have is Swiss Made with an ETA movement. The watch head is OK, but the finishing work on the bracelet in particular isn’t anything to brag about. It has solid machined links with screw pins and solid end links. However, it’s the harshest feeling solid link bracelet I’ve ever had, and I’ve got over four dozen watches and all but a couple have stainless steel bracelets. The Invicta has sharp edges that I had to radius some to take some of the harsh feel off of it. If Android (now Aragon), Orient and Seiko can get it right, to name three of the two dozen brands I own with similar price points, there’s absolutely no excuse he can’t get it right.
John
I fail to understand how Invicta Watch Co is surviving with such a poor customer service. It defies all management principles. Customer usually does not necessarily change brands for poor quality of the product but he/she will definitely change brands due to poor quality of customer service and or after sales service. I cannot imagine any other company which has lower level of customer service than Invicta.
Regards
Dinesh Dixit
Sent from my I Phone
Have about 40 invictas and love them. No issues at all. That said I’m not a fanboy of any brand. I have good luck with all brands of watches.
I am an Invicta collecter. I am not laboring under any dilusions. One presidential Rolex is worth more than my entire 200+ watches. I do it for the fun. I have slowed down allot. I admit to having an obsessive/complusive disorder (stereo gear, Tommy Bahamma clothes, shoes and golf equipment). I reralize Invicta had (and still does have) lousy customer service. Just yesterday I tried to get them to price protect their own Invicta Stores watch for $50 that I literally received a week ago. They weaseld out of it. They aren’t smart. I had 2 watches on order and told them I would cancel them if they did not credit me the $50 they could cancel my order. They chose not to. So they lose the margin on $400 worth of watches to save $50. STUPID. I had the unique opportunity to see the inside workings of the company when I did some consulting work with the C.E.O. of Swiss Watch International. He also managed World of Watches, E Watches, The Watchery and all the Amazon Invicta business. I had another interesting experience when our female attorney general sued Invicta over customer service issues. I provided their Ft. Lauderdale office with a 2 page “white paper” on my many years of collecting and all the interfaces I had with Invicta. One issue that came up with them but was never litigated that I know of was the deterioration of their rubber watch bands. When you have 200+ watches you don’t end up wearing all of them. For the ones you do, it is very infrequent. I had over six of thei watches with rubber straps that deteriorated as they sat in my collectors cases. The good news is that the problem eas so wide spread that a number of sellers on eBay had very good replacement straps for $15. The bad news is that one of my Bolt watches has no after market replacement. The orginal band from Invicta is $225 (more than I paid for the watch). They hid behind their warranty claiming “we don’t cover the watch bands”. I offered to send it to them so they could see it was never worn. They refused. The best they could do was send me a 20% off coupon on the replacement band. Are you kidding me? That dropped the price to a mere $180 for a piece of rubber with decorative hardware. The whole Swiis made but assembled in China issue was pathetic. Why to big, successful companies risk their reputation by playing”fast and loose” with the law. On the positive side, I have only had 3 Invictas ever break on me. Now you can say that when you are not wearing most of them that is not a good test. If they were junk the failure rate would be higher, even just sitting in a collectors case. All of my Invictas were purchased at deep discount and most are there self titled “Reserve” collection. No watch company has the variation of neat styles that Invicta has. Even with all their “warts” it has been a good relationship for me.
Ok, here’s what really happened: Invicta ordered several sample cases. They decided they wanted to make their own and checked to see how close they could copy the sample cases without getting sued for patent infringement. This is when they discovered that the company that made the sample cases didn’t HAVE a patent on the design. Invicta quickly reproduced the cases and patented them. The original company is now not allowed to make the cases they invented in the first place because Invicta holds the patent on the design. Sucks to be them.
https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/ik3b9ulj/florida-southern-district-court/plasticase-inc-v-invicta-watch-company-of-america-inc/
And the original patent No. 10/719,309, filed Nov. 21, 2003. Other patents https://patents.justia.com/assignee/pelican-products-inc
Invicta watch group settled out of court, case was dismissed. This is SOP with invicta.